Jury finds Wis. mother guilty in prayer death — chicagotribune.com

“We accept the situation as it is for now,” Gordon said. “We worship our God. It doesn’t mean God loves us any less. Matter of fact is, he just loves us that much more. We will continue to seek justice.”

Really? God loves you more for killing a child?

Linehan countered, saying Neumann didn’t realize her daughter was so ill and did all she could do to help, in line with the family’s belief in faith-healing.

hm. I suppose so. I’m reminded of a line from the Simpson’s. “Doc, we’ve tried nothing and we’re all out of ideas!”
Just because you attach ‘god’ or ‘faith’ to an idea doesn’t mean you are absolved of responsibility.

“Religious extremism is a Muslim terrorist,” Linehan said. “They are saying these parents were so far off the scale that they murdered their child. The woman did everything she could to help her. That is the injustice in this case.”

I thought that ending on a double-standard mixed with some cultural elitism and a hint of out-and-out racism was nice.

Look, I can’t believe what hypocrites these people are, given that Ms. Neumann seemed to require medical attention during the first day, and didn’t demand that they leave her alone and just pray for her, but…

I continue to hope these people never see their children ever again since they are more than happy to murder them.

Further, I hope the exact same thing happens to these people who are trying to murder their son, Daniel Hauser.   These people are actually wore because they know EXACTLY what is wrong with him (the Neumann’s appear to have purposefully kept themselves unaware) and EXACTLY what the standard treatment will accomplish (something like 90% recovery rate) and they don’t care.  They care more about some religious/philosophical issue than saving their son.

Thats what it comes down to, and THAT is why people like this are dangerous.  They believe that magic and mystic spirits and souls are more important than real life.  And THAT is why they can’t be allowed near children.  There are no threats, no punishments, that can exceed the power these supernatural entities hold over them.

They are the sickness of awareness, of consciousness.  They are the disease.

(btw, I’m also fucking sick of the whole ‘parents rights’ issue that the media keep bringing into the situation, any more than beating your child with a bat is a ‘parents rights’ issue, or raping your daughter is a parents rights issue, or any of the other methods of abuse we don’t allow in this country)

Well, the other 3 kids have been removed from the Neumann home during the investigation.  What keeps coming up is how there wasn’t any ‘intent’ on the parents part.  They honestly thought they were doing the right thing.

Parents who physically abuse their children often say the same.  ‘They had to learn a lesson’ or ‘my parents did the same to me’. 

Maybe these people shouldn’t go to jail.

They should be committed to a psychiatric hospital and never have their kids back.

They called their church the night before

On the night before 11-year-old Madeline Kara Neumann died of complications from untreated diabetes, her parents did not call a doctor. Instead, Dale and Leilani Neumann prayed over the telephone Saturday with the founder of a religious Web site named americaslastdays.com

So lets make sure the record is straight. She was very sick. The parents knew she was. Experts say she’d probably been getting sicker and sicker for a month.
The parents knew it was bad.
So they prayed instead of getting her medical attention.
Criminal.
Child abuse.
Schitzophrenia.

One Higher Power: Why does the media only cover when prayer goes wrong

Where is the ABC News report of the higher power saving my grandfather’s life from a diabetic episode based on a “hunch” – a “still, small voice” my uncle heard and heeded?

Well, first off, the media often does these kind of human interest stories, so lets not act all oppressed.
Second, I’m sorry, exactly how is this comparable to a little girl being murdered by her parent’s craziness?
Third, does it not strike you as, perhaps, contradictory that god saved your grandfather but not this little girl?
Oh, wait, perhaps neither event is related to god whatsoever!
W00t!
A breakthrough!

Yeah, why aren’t they covering all sides of everything?
A kid drinks drano and dies.
Why doesn’t the media show how well draino unclogged my pipes?
A person dies in a car accident.
Why doesn’t the media cover everyone who walks away from an accident?

Look, you can have your crazy. Thats your business, so long as you don’t push your crazy on others.
But lets not expect the media to go covering all your ‘miracles’.
(oh, and for the record, the media gives a free ride to religion, as a rule…but when it kills someone, well, it has to be called to task.)

Again, we take kids away from parents all the time. But if ‘god’ or ‘faith’ enter into it, they are untouchable.
Wisconsin’s faith-based healing law

Peters is referring to state statute 948.03(6), against failing to act to protect children from bodily harm. It contains an exemption for what it refers to as ” Treatment through prayer.” To wit: “A person is not guilty of an offense under this section solely because he or she provides a child with treatment by spiritual means through prayer alone for healing in accordance with the religious method of healing … in lieu of medical or surgical treatment.”

911 call. Aunt knew child was very sick. Parents must have.
A couple of people have said that, if they parents didn’t know how sick Kara was, they aren’t really responsible. I believe that, by the time the Aunt was calling, the girl MUST have been very sick for days.

Parents: Its OK, so long as you really believe

It’s important not to be moralistic or pass judgment on parents who think they can heal a child through prayer, said Dr. Norman Fost, professor of bioethics and pediatrics at the University of Wisconsin Medical School in Madison.
“They believe they’re helping their child; they love their child, and they believe prayer has an effect,” Fost said.

Exactly why shouldn’t we condemn these people? Because of their faith? What if their faith said ‘Hold your daughter submerged in holy water until she is cured’? There is exactly no difference. Simply, we MUST judge their choice.
Don’t Condemn Those Who Do What They Believe God Wants Them To Do

The Rev. Ted Nelson, leader of Big Church Alive, a nondenominational church in Wausau, said “it’s easy to judge a family for doing this or not doing that, but the bottom line is, they did what’s best in their heart, and the result turned out to be bad.”"I would be the last one to condemn those parents for what they believe,” Nelson said. “People are very sincere about their beliefs. But we can be sincerely wrong.”

The Rev. Steve Brice, pastor at Saint Anne’s Catholic Church in Wausau, said he respects anyone who follows their conscience, and he doesn’t judge their choice.

The fact is that they did exactly what christians are supposed to do.  They put their faith in god, they beleived that everything will work out they way it is supposed to work out.  That is exactly the what christianity asks you to do.  Every christian who goes to the doctor is basically saying that they don’t trust god to make it right.  This insanity is exactly why my email signature reads:

Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the
entrails of the last priest.
~ Denis Diderot